Wednesday, January 6, 2010

Thom Hartmann with James Hansen on Climate Catastrophe

The teabaggers have been all over the airwaves for months trying to call man-made climate change hooey. Reputable climate scientists have shown for years that climate catastrophe is real and imminent if nothing is done.

20 comments:

Kent said...

This may turn out to be the biggest hoax on the American people in US history. A scam that makes Bernie Madoff seem like a 5 cent bubble gum bandit. An evil environmental scheme of global trillion dollar proportions and there will be absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

For being bad polluting Americans, you will be “forced” to fork over billions in carbon tax dollars to what now appears to be a fraudulent scheme. A taxation plan on the American people in order to funnel money to foreign countries whether you like it or not.

When we the people have the world’s most powerful people backing potentially the world’s largest scam, the people are simply screwed into submission.

What, you don’t believe me? Come on you silly little complaining tax payer. Is your memory that bad? Do you remember that bank bailout or was that too long ago?

Can I refresh your memory on the trillion dollar bank bailout that 80% of the people were against that still went through? A bailout that your children and their kids will pay for. That bailout seem to go to bonus every scum bag and thief on Wall Street while you get your home foreclosed on and lose your job. A bailout that was called the biggest rip off of the American people in the history of the world.

Yeah, that scam is old news now. Time for bigger, better and bolder taxation methods that will make you slave for the American empire and now, third world countries for years to come.

So, what are the other non-UN experts and scientists saying in regards to global warming?

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) claimed that the worldwide sea-surface temperature (SST) was the hottest since the 1880s. A scientist and expert in climatology, Joe D’Aleo confronts this skewed climate data below widely distributed essay that is circulating the internet.

It appears that the incredibly propagandized corporate media is sweeping this scandal and reports that dispute global warming under the rug by failing to report on the infamous emails that expose the scam in full detail? Emails that prove the collusion to mislead and defraud the public by top UN scientists like Phil Jones, a professor at the University of East Anglia and the head of the Climate Research Unit (the unit which basically “tricked” people into believing in Global Warming) received $13.7 million in grants. Jones, Michael Mann of Penn State and a lot of other academics have been outed as people who have deliberately misled the public.

This is incredibly disturbing to say the least and what some would say is a crime.

Michigan Congreswoman Candice Miller called for a Congressional investigation due to the fact that, in her opinion, the destruction of data some scientists were involved in represents a criminal act.

Kent said...

Many believe that this failure to report the facts further proves that the media giants who control what we see and hear through are TV’s and radio are also in collusion to push the ClimateGate scam on the people. These voices have even forced the New York Times Editor to write an open ed piece about their lack of coverage of the global warming scandal and ClimateGate.

However across the pond in the UK, the media headlines last week read,” Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation.”

All the while, for the most part, our American media is taking the fifth. However, in the Middle East, the headlines read like this, ” How mainstream journalism is failing its audiences.”

With the internet’s rapid growth and an associated flourishing of alternative journalism, the traditional disseminators of information to western audiences – our print and broadcast media – have come under scrutiny as never before. There is a growing sentiment, particularly on the left but also to be found elsewhere, that mainstream journalism is failing us, even if a variety of reasons are proposed for this failure.

When the media fails to report facts, bloggers, activists and concerned American citizens are picking up the reporting slack.

Groups like We Are Change are confronting these mad scientists and even protesting the self anointed poster child for Global Warming, Al Gore at his book signings. Forcing the former vice president to cancel speaking gigs and $1,200 hand shakes in order to avoid opposition in his quest to force cap and trade down the peoples throats.

Meanwhile, scientists like Joe D’Aleo of the First Director Meteorology at The Weather Channel and former Chairman of the Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecasting, American Meteorological Society are making waves on the internet. He also writes for IceCap.US.

Joe D’Aleo has commented on the declaration of the ‘record’ sea surface temperatures by the NOAA. He has stated that NOAA has tried to build a situation about ocean warming by eliminating the satellite inputs in the worldwide ocean calculation. They have also not utilized the NASA’s Argo data. The result was a leap of 0.2 degrees C or over and a new record of ocean warming in July. ARGO stated that this was another instance of the incomprehensive choices of the NOAA, the alteration of facts in order to support political agendas.

Joe D’ Aleo also commented on the worldwide temperature declaration. Through the quoting of 90% of climate stations and the latest elimination of contribution of satellite inputs in the temperature evaluation of ocean, NOAA has made sure that all the months and seasons would grade and legalize their part of excrement as CCSP and support Cap-the-Tax.

The NOAA, NCDC or even the staff members at the local offices are not responsible for manipulating the grades or files that are published. It is the mistake of the higher rank officials and managers who work for the United Nations, who have no other job but to create a climate change hoax.

Is this is a pressure tactic used by the government in order to control basically all the factors of people’s existence?

Bruce Fealk said...

Kent, give me a break. The vast majority of climate scientists recognize that we are in a climate catastrophe.

There is no hoax and the media that put that idea out there are irresponsible.

Kent said...

And they based their theories on false evidence. Congresswomen C.Miller said it well. It's all over youtube.com. The debate isn't over yet.

djtyg said...

Bruce, you posted this tin-foil hat bullshit because....

Any man considering Candice Miller an expert on climate change is fucking retarded.

Bruce Fealk said...

And Candice Miller is a climate expert? Give me a break. I assume she is basing her thoughts on the "stolen e-mails" which have been explained in a reasonable way, not as a falsification of data, but scientists speaking as colleagues.

Had they though the e-mail would be public, I'm sure they would have chosen their language more carefully.

vomamike said...

No amount of logic will deter these "flat earth" mentalities.

It is the oil & coal industries that are ripping us off and poluting the world yet they can't see the forest for the trees. Oh PT Barnum - you were so right!

Silverfiddle said...

Yes, and other imminent scientists maintain we just don't have enough data. And we've also learned that much of the raw data is now gone.

I like Thomm Hartmann, but he's not a scientist.

Any Engineer or Scientist of any hard discipline looks at the complexity of this and shakes their head that anyone would be so naive as to draw a hard conclusion.

The impossibility of constructing non-linear models that predict something as complex as the earth's atmosphere should give us all pause.

Follow the money:
These warmist scientists are funded by people who want global warming as an issue. It's about power and control.

Want to believe in fairy tales and be led around by the nose?
Fine. Do it on your own dime and get your hand out of my pocket and leave my Ford pickup and BBQ grill alone.

Bruce Fealk said...

Silverfiddle, the climate crisis cannot be addressed by one person or even one nation.

Fight global climate change must be done by every country on the planet, lest we all be destroyed.

The evidence of the effects of global climate change are already evident. Arguing about the validity is stupid.

Let's get busy addressing the issue and getting off fossil fuels. As evidenced by the new electric vehicles at the Detroit Auto Show, the market is beginning to respond in a big way, so your argument is moot. Get off that train that is taking you into the past and join those of us living in the real world.

Silverfiddle said...

When bandwagon appeal is all you got, you're argument is in trouble.

The mathematical models are horrible mishmashes. And to be charitable to those who designed them, the earth's atmosphere is too complex to model accurately. The earth has warmed (back before the dreaded SUV) and the earth cools.

Those who scream "DO Someting!" remind me of ancient societies who beat sticks on the ground and threw women into volcanoes to get the sun to come back after a scary eclipse.

Alternative energy technologies are advancing, and one day, when they are more efficient and cheaper than fossil fuels, they will be marketable.

I for one am a fan of solar, but the efficiency still isn't there to make it viable. Just imagine if every building in California had it's own solar panel. It would not solve their energy needs, but in the aggregate it would greatly cut energy usage.

The science will get there. It already looks promising. Much more so than the fool's errand of trying to turn down the earth's thermostat. (Do you realize that one volcano event would swamp all our pathetic efforts?)

Thanks for not kicking me out for being a troll. Disagreement and debate is the spice of intellectual life.

Bruce Fealk said...

Silverfiddle, that's how we make progress. Even though the cost of solar and wind is still a bit higher, it's getting more competitive every day.

Dow Corning will be releasing solar roofing next year. Do you really think they'd be going in that direction if the costs weren't becoming competitive.

Republicans are not about progress, they are regressive. They are always about either maintaining the status quo or going backwards.

Democrats are the innovators. You can't stop progress, Silverfiddle. It's a losing battle.

Human beings were meant to explore and progress and being a Republican goes against human nature.

Are you proposing we do nothing about the climate crisis. Even if the models are insufficient, they are most likely underestimating what is happening. Real life evidence is that every prediction has underestimated what is happening, so how can we afford to do nothing?

Silverfiddle said...

Now you've created a false dichotomy, and again constructed a straw man: How can you say I am against progress???

I am all for progress. Did you read my last post on solar? You make my point, as science advances, prices come down, and the technology is marketable and viable.

Cap and trade, where Wall Street profits from rent-seeking transaction fees by selling pollution, is a horrible idea.

Even worse yet is our government taxing it, having most of the money stick to politicians' fingers, and giving us all a "rebate" to help pay for the higher energy costs they created.

They collect dollars from us and return pennies. Unlike the great work Dow Corning and others are doing, that is not progress.

vomamike said...

Global warming refers to an increase in the average temperature of the Earth’s atmosphere and oceans over time. This temperature rise is the result of an increase in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, including methane, nitrous oxide and aerosols, in our atmosphere.

When sunlight strikes the Earth’s surface, some of it is reflected back towards space as infrared radiation or heat. Greenhouse gases absorb this infrared radiation and trap the heat in the atmosphere. Normal amounts of gases are what keep the Earth warm and habitable. However, the build up of gasses beyond the normal levels and at a rate that the environment cannot alleviate, is what causes global warming. Surface air temperatures and sub-surface ocean temperatures are rising and are expected to continue to rise.

The science is valid. The threat is real. The solutions are there if we do something about it. For you doubting Thomases, I say ignore the facts at all our perils. We are fast approaching a tipping point - where nothing we do will help. That is not the legacy I want to leave my grandchildren.

Silverfiddle said...

Vomamike: You have wrapped up in a nutshell a theory.

There is no "consensus." Consensus is not even a scientific concept.

Go read about the new ice age consensus back in the 70's. The explanation for that sounded rational as well.

Empirical evidence shows that the earth warms and cools over time, sometime by a few degrees. What we are going through is not unprecedented.

How do you explain the warming trend that started back in the 1500's, before the dreaded SUV?

If you want to turn down the thermostat, how much is enough?

Even if you could, how do you get it to stop where you want it to?

What do you think the poor people in cooler climes who denude their forests to heat themselves with firewood think of these proposed efforts?

How does giving billions to international kleptocrats and third world dictators solve anything?

There is a chance the warming alarmists may be right, but it is slim and not worth economically castrating ourselves over.

vomamike said...

Silver Fiddle - Yes, I read and understand all about the climate cycles our earth has experienced for many millinea. But the conclusion is the current trend is 'man made". Further, that our imprint is exaserbating the ability to adjust. Science is better able to predict with more finality then ever before, just where we are heading. Burning of fossil fuels is a finite resourse, and there are those who already say we are pass the point of deminishing sources of oil. Coal is not the answer for obvious reason.

I cannot accept your skepticism. And I truely believe that going "green" has plenty of pluses to it. China, Japan, Germany & India are moving that way big time. We just have to have the will.

Silverfiddle said...

"But the conclusion is the current trend is 'man made"."

The propaganda is full of passive language like that. We're being manipulated (like the data).

You still haven't answered any of my questions, like what accounts for the pre-Industrial Age warming trend. And don't you find it suspicious Al Gore refuses to debate anyone? That's trouble sign right there.

The data is far from conclusive, especially in light of the release of the code from CRU. The e-mails were tantalizing, but for those who understand basic research principles, and languages such as FORTRAN and Unix, the computer code was damning.

I love "green technology" because I love nature. On a less sexy level, gains have been made, such as enviro friendly AC, and more efficient furnaces and water heaters. If it can stand on its own (like these less interesting technologies) in the free market, I'm all for it.

The science is not "settled" and educated scientists have not reached "consensus" (which is not a scientific concept).

I am not calling believers stupid, I'm simply saying the issue is far from conclusive.

Please go read this.
Ontological Angst

You won't like it, but it quotes prominent NASA and MIT scientists. They don't trash global warming believers; they simply explain why it's still an open question.

This movement looks a lot like a dogmatic medieval religion. Please read the post at that link, and thanks again for not banning me for trolling.

djtyg said...

I'll stop believing in global warming when I see two things:

1. A group of politically disinterested scientists denying global warming exists. Until now, all the scientists have been backed by Exxon-Mobil.

2. The people who have recorded pictures of melting polar ice caps and starving polar bears admits that it was all staged.

Until then, I'm accepting that the polar ice caps ARE melting, and it's going to take more than one stupid article in Newsweek from the 1970's to make me thing otherwise.

Silverfiddle said...

Good luck trying to find a politically disinterested scientist...

Polar bears starve all the time, as do elk and other creatures in the dead of winter. It is actually part of a polar bear's existence to swim from floe to floe.

As I said, I'm not throwing rocks at believers, there are too many question marks.

There are real problems right now in the third world like no potable water, food shortages, deforestation, etc.

These trillion dollar climate change plans take money away from real efforts that will solve real problems. I didn't think that up myself, I'm a fan of Bjorn Lomborg.

djtyg said...

Silverfiddle, most scientists are politically disinterested. However, I haven't seen a single scientist deny global warming who hasn't in some way, shape, or form received money from big oil.

Silverfiddle said...

The models predicted more warming for the 2000's that didn't happen. Proof that the models are wrong, is that the models failed.

This issue is too complex and too inconclusive to bet billions on.

Put your scientific mind to work. How did the globe get out of the last warming period? The last cooling period.

Just because a line is going up doesn't mean it will continue to do so forever.